4.9 Firing is relationship work
When you have to fire someone…
Do you ever feel scared?
Do you feel that fog of fear settle in around you?
If so, you’re not alone. You are so not alone. I’ve been there, and many, many of my coaching clients have been there.
What if we didn’t have to be afraid anymore? That’s what this page is about. Transforming the firing experience, for your sake and for the sake of the person you’re firing.
But first, let’s look at what makes us afraid in the first place. Here’s Loretta’s story….
I knew I had to fire Skip, long before I actually did it.
He was a new hire who started off okay, but then his performance started to slip. I got the feeling he was testing me to see how much he could get away with goofing off.
I gave him a warning. I put him on a correction plan. He smoldered, but ignored the plan. This pissed me off. But I didn’t say anything. I just got madder and more frustrated with him.
And the worst of it was how I got frustrated with myself and then mad at myself.
Oh, and then there was another problem with Skip. He came across as a super nice guy, but push on him even a little bit and his mean streak came out and it came out hard. The people in his department were walking on eggshells around him.
And me, I felt guilty that I wasn’t protecting my staff, which made me even madder, both at him and myself.
But I have to admit, I kept putting off the firing. And it was just fear. When he got mad he was kind of scary, and I just didn’t want to deal with that.
But the longer I waited and the madder I got, the more scared I got that in the firing conversation, I might get triggered. Skip was really good at pushing people’s buttons. And I was scared I might blurt out stuff that would escalate things, and that I would regret later. Or that he could use in a lawsuit.
When I finally did the deed, he did rake me over the coals. He was the one who was screwing up. But I’m the one who got the dressing down. And because I was so tense and stressed, I wasn’t thinking clearly or creatively. I wasn’t agile. So I just took his attack and walked him out of the office.
I still have a sick feeling in my gut every time I think of that guy or that firing. And it’s been six months now.
So what’s the cure for scary firings?
Don’t do them!
But how do you not do firings?
You use a system.
A system designed to prevent trouble…
The Deep-Nurturance Operating System.
Which includes the following two fundamentals.
When you’re building a team of moral-fight activists…
You start with a rigorous hiring process.
This gives you your best chance of getting the right people on your team, people who won’t give you cause for firing them.
And then…
You stay close to your staff, championing them all along the way.
You help them keep developing themselves. You give them feedback, but as an advocate not a judgmental critic.
And think about it, if you hire the right people and you’re a non-stop advocate for them, why would anyone want to start acting out?
Well, most people wouldn’t. But what if despite taking every precaution, someone who’s not right for your team slips through the hiring process. Or he takes a bad turn in their life, and now he’s suddenly oppositional instead of cooperative.
You meet with him, and you work with him to try to get him back in alignment, but he refuses your help. You put him on a correction plan and he ignores it. So now you’ve got to do a firing.
But this time…
You’re not scared.
Why? What makes the difference? You’re going to use two moral-fight principles, which…
Turn this firing into relationship work.
First…
You decide to be an advocate for the person you’re firing.
What does that mean? You stand with the person, not against them.
If you need a little boost to get you into that mindset, you might try what I call…
The Auntie Perspective.
Or you could call it the Uncle Perspective.
It works like this…
Imagine you’re this person’s aunt. You’ve known her since the day she was born. You’ve watched her grow up. You love her to pieces.
And you see her failing at her job, which could screw up her future. You don’t want to see her get herself fired. So, given that you are on her side in this deeply personal way, what would you say to her to get her attention? How would you enroll her in doing better? How would you help her call forth the best, healthiest, smartest, most responsible part of herself?
And yet, sometimes nieces and nephews have to make their own mistakes and learn their own lessons in their own way, and sometimes, their way is the hard way.
But if you consciously shift yourself into advocacy mode, if you do everything you can to prevent an adversarial mood from infecting the firing conversation, you’re giving yourself the best chance at having a neutral or positive or even breakthrough conversation with this person you’re firing.
And why be an advocate for someone you’re letting go? Someone you’re disappointed with and done with.
Here are four reasons…
First, it’s a good way to treat people. The staff person might not understand that you are being her advocate, might not appreciate it, but it is still worth taking the advocacy-stand because it’s good for your soul.
Second, this person might simply be in the wrong job and in her next job she’ll do fine.
Third, maybe in other areas of her life she’s a gem and doesn’t deserved to be torn down.
Fourth, maybe she just doesn’t get what it takes to do a job responsibly and well. Maybe no one’s ever taught her that. And maybe over the next two years she do some personal maturing and will get it and she’ll be a great employee somewhere else.
The advocacy attitude says to the person…
Even though I can’t keep you in this job, I do want you to succeed in your life.
I want you to learn from this experience and grow and move forward.
I do not want this firing to take you down.
Now here’s the most important thing about the advocacy approach…
This is not a gimmick. Please don’t ever try to fake it.
I understand the pressure to grab hold of anything that might make firing easier especially when you’re up against a tough situation. But…
Advocacy is not a how-to. It’s a matter of heart.
If you can’t find genuine appreciation for this person, then make this a Teflon firing. Just stick with the facts: “This is not working. You’re not a match for us and maybe we’re not a match for you.” Get it over with quickly and cleanly and impersonally.
I’ve worked with a lot of people on mastering this advocacy approach. Some people pick it up immediately. Some people are so mad at the staff person that they can’t feel any advocacy until they clear out their anger, but then they get with advocacy and love it. Others find it so counterintuitive that it takes them a long time to master it.
But…
What matters most is authenticity.
Can you sincerely take a stand for this person’s good heart, even if it’s not very accessible right now, and can you find in yourself good wishes for her future? If so, come from there. If not, please do not pretend, because insincerity triggers anger.
Okay, I promised you a second moral-fight principle, and here it is…
You decide that in this firing you will not use any judgmental words or statements. Not any at all.
Here’s a trap to avoid. If the person you’re firing is defensive, say he doesn’t get how he’s been failing, or suppose he things he’s been acing his job, you might be tempted to prove to him how wrong he is.
This is one reason the judgmental words start flying…
What’s wrong with you, I’ve warned you over and over that you were in trouble. How come you couldn’t grasp that? That’s just one more sign that you’re not a good employee.
You want to blame us? No, you’re not going to get away with that. This is all your fault. You screwed up royally. In fact, I have a list right here of all the things you’ve done wrong. Let me read them to you.
I’ve never had another staff who failed this miserably. You take the cake. You’d better wake up to reality or you’re never going to succeed at any job in the future.
Oh boy, just writing out those bitter comments actually makes me remember times when I wanted to say such things. And why? Because I had let the trouble go on way too long before I took action. I was distressed and resentful and just plain mad and wanted to punish the person I was firing for the fact that I was loaded up on those feelings.
But…
A firing should not be a punishment.
Because when the person being fired feels judged, made wrong, put down, abandoned, or punished, that’s when bitterness shows up. That’s when the situation can get explosive. That’s when you might make an enemy for life.
So if you’re not going to let yourself use any judgmental language, where do you turn to find advocacy language.
Here’s where the word “match” is a godsend.
Instead of being in the punishment mindset, you can get yourself into the mindset that you’re taking care of business that needs to be taken care of simply because a mismatch has developed.
You can say to the person you’re firing…
Your way of working is just simply not a match for what’s needed by the organization.
Or…
How you treat people is not a match for our organizational culture.
Or….
It seems clear from the last few months, that you’re not a match for us and we’re not a match for you. Why not go find a job at a place where you are a match and can be happy?
You’re taking a stand for you way of doing things and you’re way of treating people. But it’s a personal stand. You’re not saying…
Your way is wrong.
You’re saying…
Your way is different. And it’s not a match for us.
The person you’re firing still might not like hearing about the mismatch, but at least there’s a chance he won’t feel judged.
How do I know this? Let me tell you about three clients I worked with on firings…
Angela
I told my development director the strengths I saw in her, and then I told her that her performance on this job was not a match for what we needed. I didn’t use one judgmental phrase or word. My attitude was one of ease and sunshine. That’s because I had gotten my anger and distress cleared out during our coaching session.
At the end, she got up and gave me a hug and said, “Maybe I’ll write some grants for you on a volunteer basis.”
Barrie
I really did not want to let Darron go. Half his job he did great. He was tremendous with the kids and outreach, but he ignored his supervision duties. His staff felt neglected. And they were right, they were. So I told him that I was a fan of his, and gave him some ideas about sister agencies where I thought he’d do great. And I meant it.
I think he could feel my heart as I talked. I was so sad to lose him. But he was failing to do a very important part of his job. I had talked with him about it so many times and he made no changes at all.
He really is a great guy, just not a match for this position. Maybe supervision is just not his thing. He was very upset, but at the end he gave me a big hug on his way out.
Cornelia
Earl was over at one of the agencies we collaborate with and got in a fight with the director there. An actual fight. Fists flying.
It just killed me. I went out of my way to recruit him. Out on the street he was our best outreach worker ever. I told him how upset I was to be letting him go. And what I saw in him. And that I would do whatever I could to help him get a new job.
When he got up to go, this big hulk of a street-fighting guy had tears in his eyes and gave me a hug and at the door turned back and whispered, “Thank you.”
I know two other EDs who also got a hug at the end of a firing. Now of course, you won’t get hugs every time you fire someone, and you might not even want a hug. But this is the kind of thing that can happen when you practice the advocacy-stand.
One more note about this. Many of the corporate HR books tell you to fire someone like this…
Call them into your office. Announce that this is a firing. Be curt and terse. Keep the conversation as short as possible. Hand over their final check. Give them a cardboard box for their personal stuff. Then have security walk them silently out of the building.
Talk about cold. You can see the influence of the lawyers in this strategy. It’s supposed to minimize trouble. But if someone did this to you, wouldn’t you feel abandoned, and in a moment when you’re feeling really vulnerable, and maybe hurt, and angry.
A firing is not a time to do therapy. But it seems to me that in most cases, it is a time for compassion, and for advocacy. And engaging in advocacy pays off. If you make the staff person wrong, or if you punish them, or if you abandon them, that’s when they go home and call their lawyer. Or go out in the community and start badmouthing you and your organization.
I believe in using the advocacy approach to firing for moral reasons. But I believe it’s also the best way to prevent future trouble. It’s a way to get closure, instead of opening a new wound.
Next we’re going to look at detailed examples of firing conversations. Sometimes an advocacy firing goes so well it feels like magic. But it’s not magic. It’s the result of the stand you take for taking care of yourself and for treating people well, even when you’re saying goodbye.
Please remember as you read, that these dialogues are here not to be copied by rote, but to illustrate core principles. Firing conversations will have a very different feel and flow depending on the particular personalities of the people involved. There are many possibilities for the flavor of a firing, but the principles, I believe, are always helpful.
Molly and Frank
First, let’s look at the problem Molly has with Frank, then at four different possible endings to their conversation.
Molly: Help me out here.
Frank: What do you mean?
Molly: We’ve got a problem and it’s really serious.
Frank: What is it?
Molly: I’ve gotten calls from the EDs of three of our sister agencies who were upset about the testimony you gave at City Hall last night.
Frank: Oh, that. Yes, I defended our position. Those developers are assholes, and the Council Members who support them are assholes, too.
Molly: And did you tell them that?
Frank: Pretty much. But I didn’t use the A-word.
Molly: So help me understand your thinking.
Frank: Well, this development proposal is really serious. It would be devastating for the community. We can’t mess around here. We’re under attack so we have to counterattack.
Molly: What about the work our Message Team did? They put a lot of hours into our strategy for this issue. And they consulted in depth with our allies.
Frank: Yes, they gave me my talking points and rehearsed with me. But in the moment, I decided I had to make an executive decision….
Now, before we get to the advocacy part, here’s a reminder of how badly things can go wrong, and just how quickly, when people get triggered and turn against each other.
Frank: …in the moment, I decided I had to make an executive decision.
Molly: Where did you get the idea that you’re allowed to make an executive decision on your own without any authorization from anybody? You’re not an executive. You’re only an organizer. What were you thinking?
Frank: I was thinking that I was the one who was there looking at those jerks, and someone had to slam them to teach them a lesson. I trust my gut feelings. They never steer me wrong.
Molly: They steered you wrong this time, Mister. You were totally out of line. You screwed up. Do you even remember the name of this organization? It’s the Community Consensus Project. You’ve got a vastly overinflated opinion of yourself.
Frank: You didn’t grow up in this community, so you don’t really know what’s going on. I get to do executive overrides whenever I decide to because this is my community.
Molly: Well, I live here now, so it’s mine, too.
Frank: Well, maybe you should move out.
Molly: Maybe you should start looking for a new job.
Now, back to advocacy. In this next conversation, Molly knows where she stands, but doesn’t know how things will turn out because that depends on the quality of the decisions Frank makes.
Frank: …in the moment, I decided I had to make an executive decision.
Molly: I appreciate how forthright you are in answering my question. You’re not dodging.
Frank: Oh, well. Thanks. Yes, directness is something I believe in.
Molly: That’s something I respect about you…and we can’t ever have an incident like this again. I can’t ever get calls like this again from our allies. Not ever. Really not ever.
Frank: So what does that mean?
Molly: It means we talk this through. Are you willing to do that? Take a breath, get behind the scenes, really dig into this.
Frank: Sure, I’m always willing to do that.
Molly: That’s another thing I appreciate about you. So, what does it mean to you that our organization is called the Community Consensus Project?
Frank: Actually, it rubs me the wrong way.
Molly: Because…
Frank: Because I’m a fighter, and consensus sounds so wimpy.
Molly: Hmm. Have you ever thought about going over and getting a job at Fight Back?
Frank: Jeez no. Those people are scary.
Molly: So you like the people here?
Frank: Yes! Very much.
Molly: And you like what we’re doing?
Frank: Absolutely, that’s why I hounded you till you gave me the job.
Molly: Tell me, do you see anything gutsy about consensus?
Frank: Hmm. I never thought about it that way. Well, it takes a lot of patience. It means you have to keep gathering people in, over and over again. I’ve watched you do that. I know it’s not easy.
Molly: Do you see us as being wimps or do you see us as taking a stand?
Frank: No, you definitely take a stand. You do it without kicking butt, but you do it.
Maybe I don’t really understand what you’re doing in those meetings.
Molly: I really like the fight in you. I like your moxie. We need that. And I think if you decided to learn consensus, the gutsy version, you could be masterful. You could become one of the best leaders in this community. So here’s a challenge for you: Do you want to go for that? You can take a moment to think about it, if you like.
Frank: I don’t need a moment. I never saw it that way. I know we’re the ones who get things done. Fight Back does great demonstrations, but they’re worthless when it comes to the negotiations where the real stuff happens. Yes, I’d like to be a negotiator, if it means I get to take a stand instead of wimping out.
Molly: Okay, you’re on. We don’t tolerate wimpy negotiators. There’s too much at stake. Let’s put together a development plan for you.
Sometimes, though, a parting of the ways is right for all concerned, and this can be discovered through advocacy.
Frank: …in the moment, I decided I had to make an executive decision.
Molly: What about going over and working at Fight Back? Think about it for a moment. Fight Back and us are like the odd couple. They do great demonstrations. And then when the councilmembers see us coming they’re so glad we’re not Fight Back they welcome us in. Would Fight Back be more of a match for your spirit?
Frank: It might be. I’ve known those guys from grade school on up. I do like the spirit there, the camaraderie, their kind of street gutsiness.
Molly: I want you to be in a place that’s really a match for you. You have so much to contribute to this community, it doesn’t matter what organization you’re working for.
Frank: Okay, how about if I go over there this afternoon and catch Lefty and talk with him about this? Start feeling it out. Is that okay?
Molly: Yes, and there’s no rush. Take the time you need. I want this to work for you.
Frank: Okay. Hmm.
Molly: What?
Frank: Just had an idea.
Molly: I appreciate that about you, how you’re always thinking.
Frank: Well, I’m thinking if I joined up with Fight Back, I might start doing community trainings on how to take a stand. Too many groups around here are too submissive. They could do a lot better.
Molly: The community needs that.
Frank: And I think, having worked here and appreciating what you do, I could help turn Fight Back into a more sophisticated ally for you.
Molly: That would be a blessing indeed. So we’ve got a deal?
Frank: Deal!
Sometimes a firing, even when you’re doing your very best advocacy, simply ends up as a firing. But still, advocacy can bring empathy and kindness to the situation.
The primary reason fired staff bad-mouth the organization for months afterwards or harass the director with hateful emails, is that during the firing they felt judged and shamed.
The advocacy approach sweetens the conversations and sometimes prevents further trouble and lasting damage.
Frank: …in the moment, I decided I had to make an executive decision.
Molly: I know you to be a sincere person, and I’m guessing that you took the action that in your heart you believed was best.
Frank: Yes, that’s really true. I know I wasn’t following the game plan, but I’m an initiator. I have to be able to make decisions on my own whenever I feel the need to do that.
Molly: I get that…and it’s not a match for us. Remember, we’re the Community Consensus Project. Your desire to be independent of the team is the opposite of who we are. And here’s the dilemma. Everything I know about you says you’re a fighter and you have a particular, individual way of fighting, and that’s really you, and it’s not something you’re interested in changing. True? Not true?
Frank: You nailed it, yes, this is really me. What you see is what you get. And what you’re seeing is what you’re going to get today, tomorrow, and the day after.
Molly: So what I’m hearing is that you’re not a match for the Consensus Project and we’re not a match for you.
Frank: Here’s what I’m about. I’m going to engage in struggle with the leadership of this organization. I think it’s time to change the name and change the mission. That’s a stand I’m taking, and I’ll fight for it. Don’t try to change my mind, it won’t happen.
Molly: Okay, that’s very clear, and thank you for being so clear, and I’m deciding right now that you can’t work here anymore. We need people who are a match for our mission. We can’t be fighting internally while trying to negotiate consensus in the community on difficult, controversial issues. Our work is super challenging so we need a coherent team.
Frank: Wow, that feels sad all of a sudden.
Molly: For me, too. We need fighters in this community. We need you in this community. You’ve got so much to offer. I just can’t see how you can make the difference you want to make through the Consensus Project.
Frank: Look, I could stay and be your devil’s advocate. I could be the one to keep you on your toes.
Molly: What’s your opinion about the quality of our programs?
Frank: Your programs are good, really good.
Molly: We don’t need anyone to keep us on our toes, we do that ourselves. Do you know what would happen if you stayed and were at odds with us, making our lives harder?
Frank: You’d get used to it.
Molly: Not in the least little bit. We’d resent you—and we’d let you know about it. And then you’d resent us. And we’d be miserable and you’d be miserable. And we deserve better and you deserve better. And besides we don’t do resentment. We have a policy against it.
Frank: A policy?
Molly: Frank, don’t you want to work in a place where you can make a genuine contribution and be happy and have people be happy with you?
Frank: Sure. But it’s never worked out that way.
Molly: I’m sorry to hear that. Really sorry. But what if you could fix that? How much would it matter to you?
Frank: A lot.
Molly: I’m wondering if you could use your intense energy to do a super proactive search for a workplace that’s a total match for you.
Frank: Maybe I could. I usually take the easiest job to get. Maybe I need to look harder.
Molly: That makes sense to me. So now it’s time for us to talk about how you’re going to leave.
Frank: Is that really the only choice?
Molly: You’ve got three options. One, you get on our team and stay with us. But that means really getting on our team. Putting your heart into it. At this point I’m not hearing that. Or, two, you resign. Or, three, I let you go.
Frank: So it’s really over?
Molly: Yes, it’s not an option to stay here and fight with us. If you want to think about it overnight and tell me tomorrow if you’d like to resign or be fired, that’s fine with me.
Frank: Okay, I’ll sleep on it. No, wait, I don’t want to get fired. Are you sure there’s no way to work this out?
Molly: I just heard you take a very strong stand for fighting with me and my team. Was that just bluster or were you for real?
Frank: I’m always for real.
Molly: Well, then.
Frank: Okay, Door Number Two, I quit. Give me the resignation.
Molly: You’ve got it. Now, one last thing. What will you tell your family and friends about why you’re leaving your job?
Frank: I don’t know. I don’t want people to think I had to leave. That would be embarrassing. What would you suggest?
Molly: In our conversation, we’ve discovered that you’re not a match for our organization, but also that our organization is not a match for you. So what if you just told people you realized the Consensus Project is not really right for you? And tell them that you’re going to look for a place where you can make your best contribution and be happier. Which I’m guessing is actually true.
Frank: It is. Next job I take I do want it to be a really good match. Thanks for that idea. I can make that work.
Molly: You’re welcome, and best wishes.
Shelby and Donnie
Here Donnie keeps pushing back on Shelby, the ED, but she keeps working for some kind of understanding in hopes of softening the firing and helping Donnie handle it well.
Shelby: Donnie, I asked to meet with you because three different staff have come to me to tell me that you’ve been saying things about Gayle that negative and hurtful. And not at all true. And you know that’s not acceptable here.
Donnie: I didn’t mean anything by it. I just talk about people. That’s something my family has always done. It’s just my way.
Shelby: Whatever you do on your own time is up to you, but here in the office, or anywhere during work hours, negative gossiping is not okay. And we already talked about this two weeks ago when there was that similar incident about Millie.
Donnie: Well, here’s what I think. I think you’ve got it in for me, just because I come from a family that is not all proper and polite and everything.
Shelby: First, it doesn’t have anything to do with polite. And second this is not personal. On a personal level I like you. That’s one reason I hired you. And you do good work. I would hate to lose you and have to go find someone else.
But third, as I said in your job interview, and as I’ve talked about in staff meetings, we run on what we call mission discipline. And part of that discipline is no negative gossip.
Donnie: I don’t like to do stuff because I have to. I don’t think you should have these rules. I think you should just let us be ourselves. Do you have something against diversity?
Shelby: This is not a rule. It’s something much bigger than that. It’s a stand. It’s our organizational way of life. It’s a gift we give to each other because we care about each other. We want people to be able to play at the top of their game. We want people to be happy here.
We want a staff culture where people feel safe, appreciated, and challenged. Not attacked. Not undermined.
And those three staff who came to me…
Donnie: Snitches…
Shelby: No, they were taking a stand. Remember how each of them told you to stop?
Donnie: So?
Shelby: So that’s what a culture is. A culture is not based on shoulds, but on a stand. We want a workplace where each of us can soar, where we can do great things together as a team.
I worked for a short time in a nonprofit where splits happened and staff battles sucked up all the air in the room and I hated going to work. So I got out of there as soon as I could.
Donnie: See, that’s what I’m saying. This is just something personal for you. You’re just acting out your past pain and taking it out on me. You should be ashamed.
Shelby: Not only am I not ashamed, I’m so very proud of what we’ve created here. All of the staff together. This is something so core to who we are and so essential to our work that we will not be backed off from it. Not for anything. There’s absolutely nothing you can say that will change that.
Donnie: So, you don’t believe in democracy? You don’t believe in people having a voice?
Shelby: In this organization no one gets to vote for relational aggression. No one has the freedom to do negative gossip.
So no, there are things we are not at all democratic about, but we do live in a country that is a democracy, which means for anyone who finds our culture is not a match for what they want, they get to vote with their feet and go find a place where they can do whatever they want. There are lots of nonprofits that are like that.
You’ve seen how open and participatory we are in talking about strategies and programs. That’s because we’ve got a top notch staff. Everyone brings so much to our work.
But we do not tolerate any behavior that makes this an unsafe, unhappy place to work.
Donnie: I think you…
Shelby: No, wait. This conversation is heading down a dead end street. I don’t do want to go there with you. I like you, I know you have a lot to give. What I’m hearing is that our culture is not a match for you and you’re not a match for us. And if you’re not happy here, why not go find a place where you will be happy and will thrive?
Donnie: So you’re going to actually fire me over a couple incidents of gossip? That’s awfully extreme. Don’t you think you’re overreacting?
Shelby: What you’re seeing right now is just how serious we are about defending our culture. Those three incidents are a big deal for us. It’s a big deal that when those three staff asked you to stop, you didn’t stop and they had to walk away from you. It’s a big deal that you didn’t change your behavior after the conversation we had two weeks ago.
And it’s a big deal right here in this conversation that you’re defending negative gossip and that you believe in the freedom to say anything you want, even if it hurts people’s feelings.
Maybe you can tell from the tone I’m taking with you in this conversation how very serious I am, and this whole team is, about the culture we’ve created. It took us a lot to get here, an we’re not giving it up for anything. And I know you’re a good person with a good heart, but I really don’t know what else to say to you.
Donnie: Well, if I’m doing good work, if I’m meeting my job objectives, then you can’t say anything more to me.
Shelby: But I am saying something more to you. Remember when I walked you through your job description line by line in your interview? I made a special point of the part that said that part of your job is to support the culture of the organization and to boost morale and that no relational aggression is tolerated.
We wrote that in to every job description because we feel so strongly in it.
Donnie: I remember all that, but nobody’s talked about it since, so I didn’t think you really meant it. I thought it was just one of those nice things that organizations say.
Shelby: We don’t have to talk about it much because we practice it. Haven’t you seen that? Have you heard anyone else doing negative gossip or put downs?
Donnie: Not really. Okay, I’ve been told, so let me get back to work now.
Shelby: Sorry, no, this has to be settled first.
Donnie: It’s such a small thing. The work is so much more important.
Shelby: I appreciate how dedicated you are to the work. But to us the team comes first and the work comes second. And that’s both because we just simply like it that way, but also because we’re doing so much better work now that we’re a coherent, supportive team.
Donnie: You guys are too intense.
Shelby: We’re not too intense for us. We love our intensity about our mission discipline. But we might be too intense for you. And that doesn’t mean that you’re a bad person. Not at all. It just might mean that what you want is something different than what we stand for.
Donnie: But…
Shelby: Help me out here. We’re out of time for buts. I’m in a bit of a state of shock right now. I thought we were so clear in your interview about our culture. We spent twenty minutes out of the first hour talking with you about it. And you smiled and nodded and said you thought it was cool.
And maybe you were doing that just because you wanted the job. That’s completely understandable. But we meant every word we said. Are you getting that now?
Donnie: Yeh, I guess I am. But you guys are too much. You need to lighten up.
Shelby: About this, not a chance.
Donnie: So then what?
Shelby: You’ve got a serious decision to make. Talk to me about what you’re thinking. I don’t know what else to say to you at this point, but I want you to make the decision that’s best for you.
Donnie: I think it’s best if you let me stay and just leave me alone. I’ll be the staff person who marches to the beat of a different drummer.
Shelby: You know why we won’t do that? Because if we let you stay and continue to do negative gossip, we’re going to get to a place pretty quickly where we resent the hell out of you. And then you’re going to resent the hell out of us right back. And we just simply don’t do resentment.
See, this thing about being on the team is so serious, that if you’re not with us on this, and so far in this conversation you’re not, then there’s no hope for you to have solid, warm, happy working relationships here. I can’t see any kind of win for you.
Donnie: At least I could keep getting a paycheck.
Shelby: You wouldn’t, because if I don’t let you go now, I’ll let you go the very next time you do negative gossip. So let’s make an exit plan for you.
Donnie: You must really hate me.
Shelby: I don’t. The staff doesn’t. But we are not going to let things deteriorate to the point that we do hate having you here.
Donnie: You can’t compromise a little bit?
Shelby: Not on this. This is our core. We treat each other with care and respect. Why would we ever compromise on that?
Donnie: Because I’m a good worker.
Shelby: If all we looked at was your work, then yes, so far you’re a good worker. But you wouldn’t be for long. Because our work depends so much on working together. And if no one wants to talk with you, if no one trusts you, your work is going to go downhill fast. This is the kind of thing we talked about in your interview.
Was there something more we could have said to get that across?
Donnie: No, I heard you. I was paying attention. I just didn’t want to believe it.
Shelby: Thanks for being straightforward about that.
Donnie: There’s no way I can stay?
Shelby: Why would you want to stay? You believe what you believe and you want what you want. And given that, there’s no future here for you.
Donnie: Okay, well I’ve been looking at other jobs anyway.
Shelby: Really?
Donnie: No, but I did think about it over the weekend.
Shelby: Well, maybe that’s a sign. You know, there are lots of good people with good hearts who are just not a match for each other. The chemistry is just not right.
Donnie: Yeh, I’ve been there all right. Like my last three girlfriends.
Shelby: I’m willing to make the decision for you. But think about what it would give you to make the decision for yourself. To claim a different future. To go find a place where you’ll be in synch.
Donnie: No, you decide. I don’t want to fire myself. I don’t know if there is any place where I’ll fit in.
Shelby: Well, that makes me feel really sad.
Donnie: Hmmm.
Shelby: Listen, I’ll be rooting for you. I really will. I remember it took me a long time to find myself. And maybe that’s what’s going on for you. I don’t know, but maybe you’re just on that journey of finding yourself.
Donnie: Maybe.
Shelby: Okay, I’m going to buzz Jelani and ask her to print out your final paycheck through the end of this week, and then I’m going to ask her to print one for two weeks of pay in appreciation for the work you’ve done.
And next I’m going to walk you through the office so you can collect your stuff and say goodbye to everyone.
Donnie: Wow.
Shelby: Yeh. Wow.
Do you need a minute to collect your thoughts?
Donnie: No, I’m ready.
Justine and Mickey
Once in a while I’ve had to help an ED fire a staff person they love working with, a great person with a great attitude, but still he’s failing at the job.
And this is a much harder firing to do than exiting someone who’s been big trouble with a bad attitude.
Justine: Hi, Mickey. Today instead of doing our regular check in, we’re going to have a very serious conversation.
Mickey: Oh, I don’t like the sound of that.
Justine: Me, either. In fact, let me step back a moment before we dive in. I really don’t want to have to have this conversation with you because I like you so much. Everyone here loves having you on the team. You know that, don’t you?
Mickey: I feel a little shy to say it, but I do know that. Relationships are my strong suit.
Justine: Yes, that’s so true. And now let’s get to the hard part. Six months ago when you asked if you could move from outreach coordinator to development director, we said yes, because you made a very convincing case that your relationship building talents which were unmistakable doing outreach would translate easily over to pursuing foundations and asking major donors for money.
Mickey: Yes, but it’s taking me a little longer than I expected to get my feet on the ground in this new job.
Justine: That’s what we need to talk about, because standing back and looking at the situation objectively it sure doesn’t seem to be working. For example, you’ve missed two grant deadlines that were on the grants calendar, and that’s cost us an amount that’s twice your salary.
Mickey: Wow, I hadn’t thought of it like that. Details are not my strong suit but I’m working on it.
Justine: Well, here’s the problem. Every single grant is absolutely crucial to us, especially in this economy. Those two grants were almost 100% assured for renewal, but now that money’s gone, and I have no idea how to make it up.
Mickey: I’m so sorry.
Justine: I know you are and I don’t want you to have to be sorry. You were such a success as outreach coordinator. You were soaring.
Mickey: Well, I hear what you’re saying and it feels bad. I mean really bad.
Justine: So that’s part one. And part two is that you have been doing great at networking with current donors and possible donors and I’ve gotten feedback that people really like you. Which is no surprise.
But you’re not getting the checks.
Mickey: Well, I’m building relationships for the future.
Justine: Mickey, you’re able to build a relationship in ten minutes because you’re so personable. But we don’t just need friends, we need donors. We need those checks.
We’ve been working on this thing about asking in our supervision sessions since the day you stepped into this job, and I haven’t seen any sign of improvement. And you know what that says to me?
Mickey: What?
Justine: It says that this is not a matter of training, but of talent or interest or match. It says to me that asking is just not your thing. At least at this point in your life.
Mickey: Well, I like to win people over. I don’t like to push them into anything.
Justine: Okay, somehow that worked for you in outreach, but it’s not working in fundraising.
And I don’t have any more tips or strategies for you. I don’t know what else to say to you about asking.
Mickey: Asking is the hardest part for me.
Justine: Is there any part of asking that calls to you?
Mickey: Not so much. I think of it as more something I have to push through.
Justine: That must make it really hard to be the development director.
Mickey: Yeh, some days it does.
Justine: Okay, here’s the crunch. I can’t let you continue as development director. The organization simply can’t afford it. And I can’t return you to outreach, because your replacement is settled in and doing really well. So we’ve reach a dead end and it makes me really sad.
Mickey: Wow, it’s that serious? You’re throwing me out?
Justine: Out of the job yes. But we don’t want you out of our lives. You decide how you feel about this, but me and the staff want you to be a permanent part of our circle and our community.
And in order for that to happen, it means we have to have a very clear, very forthright conversation right now.
Mickey: I appreciate that.
Justine: Let’s take a moment and look down the road into the future. Let’s say I let you stay in the DD position. And let’s say it’s six months from now and you haven’t been able to make up the money from the two lost grants and your fundraising is still not good. Then we’ll be in a situation where we’ll have to lay off someone from the staff. Maybe even two or three. Now what?
Mickey: God, I would hate that. I see what you’re saying. I don’t know how I could live with myself if I lost jobs for the organization. And those staff laid off would probably hate me. Maybe everyone would be pissed at me.
Justine: That’s the kind of thing that could happen and you don’t deserve that. You really don’t. Not you.
Mickey: Oh, jeez, I see that I have to go. I just can’t let something like that happen. And truth be told, I do feel like I’m struggling and I don’t see any imminent breakthrough on the horizon.
Oh, I’m going to miss this place so much. I’m really going to hate to go.
Justine: Yes, and we’re going to hate it, too. But we care about you. And let’s see how we can do this in the very best way. For starters, how about resigning instead of getting fired?
Mickey: Yeh, that’s a no-brainer. I’m resigning.
Justine: And you took a chance and we took a chance, and there’s no shame in that.
Mickey: There’s not? I feel terrible right now. Like I’ve let everyone down.
Justine: No, there’s no shame in this. Let’s take a stand against shame. You were so sure you could do the DD thing and we believed you could, and part of life is taking risks like that and sometimes they don’t work out not because you’re not a good person, but because it’s just not the right thing for you. It’s not a match.
I want you to be proud of being bold enough to take the risk. And I want all of us to talk about this past six months in that way. You were brave. You tried something. It didn’t work. Now you’re going to try something else. You’ve got serious talents that you can use in another position and succeed.
Mickey: That helps.
Justine: And I want to offer you five sessions with an outplacement consultant I know. Her name is Carey and she’s really good and she’ll help you be aggressive about going after your next job.
Mickey: Wow, I really appreciate that.
Justine: And I’ll write you a rave review for all the things I’ve seen you do well which are considerable. And I’ll highlight the kind of person you are. You’re someone I admire.
Mickey: Thank you. It feels good to hear that.
Justine: And something else.
Mickey: What?
Justine: There’s one thing I regret. I wish when you had taken the DD position we had talked at greater length what would happen if it didn’t work out. We were so jazzed that I think we went through that part of it much too quickly. What do you think?
Mickey: Yeh, I had stars in my eyes. It would have helped if you had kind of shaken me by the shoulders and said, “What if this doesn’t work?” Or if I had looked into the mirror and had that conversation with myself.
Justine: So that’s something I feel sad about. But sadness and shame are really different things. Do you know what I mean?
Mickey: Kind of.
Justine: You had your heart set on being DD, and if it had worked, think how proud you would have been and how that would have changed your life.
Mickey: That’s true. We need more and better fundraisers in the sector and I wanted to be one of them. I wanted to make that kind of contribution.
Justine: See, that’s what I mean. There’s your good heart. Your intent to contribute is something to be proud of and celebrate. But then it didn’t work the way you wanted it to, and that’s something to feel sad about.
Mickey: Thanks, that distinction really helps. I’ve got so many feelings swirling around in me right now that I’m having a little trouble keeping the shame out of the picture.
Justine: So what do you need right now? Do you need to sleep on this? Do you want to brainstorm ideas for your job search? You’ve got Carey, but I’d also be willing to brainstorm with you. I know you so well and I’m such an advocate for you that I’d be glad to help.
Mickey: I’ll write out my resignation letter right now. Then I think I need to take a little time for myself and sleep on this. Tomorrow and through the end of the week I’ll put all my files in order and make sure the database is up to date and get any grants submitted where the deadline is coming up in the next thirty days, and as soon as that’s done we can call that my last day.
And yes, I would like you to brainstorm with me. So can we set a lunch for next week sometime? My treat.
The power of culture
Let’s look at two different firings.
Nonprofit X
If you were to walk into this organization for a visit, you’d feel tension in the air. There’s an underlying presence of unhappiness because people are not getting their core needs met. So they’re acting out.
And some of that acting out lapses over into relational aggression. So there’s some level of fear. There’s a constant sense of anxiety. It’s very easy to trigger people into distress.
So imagine that Sylvia the ED has had Blake on a correction plan for three months and has finally decided to fire him.
But Blake has seen this coming, so he’s been working his way through the staff, telling them Sylvia is being unfair and if she can be unfair to him, she could be unfair to anyone. People start getting scared they might be fired.
And if anyone wants to stay out of it, Blake bullies them into supporting him.
He gets away with all this because this is a culture where people have been getting away with acting out for years.
So now, not only is Sylvia going to have to do a difficult firing, but she’s going to have to handle a staff-wide upset, and maybe some degree of opposition.
I’ve seen this kind of thing happen even when the staff know Blake needs to be fired. But they are so hooked on anxiety that they’ll indulge their feelings of distress rather than take a stand with Sylvia.
And now for something completely different…
Nonprofit Z
If you walked into this organization, you’d notice a happy, busy hum of people engaged in their work. And you stick around for a few days, and you see that they have a culture where people support each other, where they’re mission-focused. There is almost no acting out because people are getting their core needs met. They take responsibility for themselves.
But there’s one person who stands out. This is Brady. He’s a new hire who two months in is failing at his job. And he doesn’t treat people well. He makes cutting remarks. He hurts people’s feelings.
Sharon, the ED, has warned him but he’s ignored her, and he knows what’s coming next. He’s going to be fired. He tries to get the staff in an uproar. But no one responds. He can’t recruit anyone to his side. Staff tell him he should do his job and get on the team and stop hurting people.
No one is scared about losing their job because they each know where they stand, they each know they’re doing good work and they feel appreciated by Sharon.
You talk with Sharon and she says, we’ve built a resilient culture. You can’t trigger anxiety here. This is a culture the staff loves so much they’ll defend it.
So she does the firing, and it’s not difficult. And the staff breathes a collective sigh of relief. And when they see Sharon in the hall afterwards, they say, “Thank you.”
One more benefit
There are so many good things about doing advocacy firings. And here’s one more that I want to urge you to consider.
Conventional firings can sometimes be so toxic and bitter that they verge on trauma. So what happens then after the firing is done? Are you through with it? Or do you carry it in your gut for months or years to come?
As I wrote that last sentence, the memory of a firing my ED and I did thirty-some years ago came back to me in a short, swift shock of pain. I very rarely think of it. But when I do, it still makes me catch my breath.
This was a completely justified firing. It was so very justified.
Our mistake was that we kept giving this person extra chances, because we wanted to be nice guys, and I guess we were trying to save her from herself.
She didn’t appreciate any of that. Instead she turned the firing process ugly with accusations and attacks. And she was really good at attacks.
And she dragged the process out as long as she could. She brought in a lawyer who was a friend of the family, a guy who knew she had no ground to stand on, and knew was going to lose her appeals, but helped her make as much trouble as possible.
And so I want to say to you…
Please protect yourself.
Don’t load yourself up with bad memories.
Please be disciplined, because one of the advantages of doing a full-on advocacy firing is that…
When you’re done with it, you’re really done.
You can let it go. It won’t take up residence in your body in the way trauma does.
And whenever you remember it, you’ll feel a glow of pride that you did everything you possibly could to make this a forthright but compassionate firing.
What about a lawyer?
I’ve been talking mostly about firings in the context of a healthy organizational culture.
But if you’re in an organization that has a chaotic, high-anxiety culture, where relational aggression is going on, there’s something I want you to stop and think about before you fire someone.
Ask yourself, given what you know about this person…
What are his values?
How is he likely to respond?
Is he likely to attack you?
Will he be mean?
Is he litigious?
Will he get a lawyer and make your life as miserable as he can?
If you think a firing is going to be serious trouble, then I recommend before you do it, and if possible, before you even set your correction plan in motion, that you go hire a good HR lawyer. And make a plan with her, one that she can assure you she can defend easily in case the fired person decides to act out or to sue.
If you have reason to expect trouble, don’t wait till it erupts to start thinking about a lawyer. I’ve worked with EDs on some pretty ugly firings. And there’s something about people with a nonprofit heart that they hate going to a lawyer.
But if you wait till the situation turns into an emergency, you might not be able to find a really good lawyer as quickly as you need to.
When firings go bad, they can go very bad, so I recommend being prepared. First, to know that you have legal counsel working with you on a difficult firing can give you some peace of mind. You’ll sleep a bit easier at night.
And if the firing blows up, and maybe a couple Board members are upset about it, you can tell them you did your due diligence, and that you were following a plan laid out by the organization’s lawyer.
And one more thing. Some EDs recruit a lawyer onto their Board to deal with personnel issues. But I don’t recommend it. Because what if that lawyer, who you’re asking to volunteer his time is suddenly busy on the biggest case he’s ever gotten. Or what if he doesn’t want to take as strong a stand as you know you need to take?
If I’m doing something as potentially complex as a firing, I want to pay a lawyer, I want to be a real client, I want to be able to demand that my lawyer show up when I need him to show up, and I want to be able to insist that he doesn’t waffle when we need him to stand firm.
Now after all that scary stuff, let me say again, it’s possible, if you do rigorous hiring and vigorous championing, to cut the number of firings you have to do almost to zero. And when you do have to do a firing, if you use the advocacy approach, you’ll have a very good chance of handling it well, and not having to go into extra innings.
